Curse

pin · Oct 16, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkKnight

WoW has bever been challanged.

Diablo II has and that game had single player capabilities and u never ahd to Purchase and online key.

All other court cases related to blizzard have been over Copyright infringment.

Blizzard mainly used the argument that MDY violated copyright infringement but they also stated it violated WOW’s EULA (3rd party addons).

DarkKnight · Oct 16, 2008, 11:17 PM // 23:17

yes but that was a Copyright case at the end. Saying that the dude trying to sell bots for WoW was breaking copyright law by stealing information stored in memory at the time that is normally stored on WoW Servers and they won, not a Player Sueing over his accnt being banned or closed.

Kashrlyyk · Oct 16, 2008, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

...
its pretty bs

Jep!

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

and the support team prolly have no clue how gw even works

whatever the company and product...
i am a firm believer that all employees should have fairly good "product knowledge"

Do they even play the games they are "supporting"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

especially the support team...
its just terribly frustrating when the customer is trying to get help from the customer support,
but the customer obviously knows the product 100x better than the support does

What frustrates me the most is that they most likely don´t even read what you have written. Do they get into serious trouble when they have to revoke a ban and that is why they are so adamant it was justified??

BTW this is the reason I will never report anyone for botting. I am not going to be the excuse to ban someone, who didn´t do anything wrong.

Red Sonya · Oct 16, 2008, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Dimitri

I have Logitech G15 and i also did some macros, but i maxed title with no problem ! But i did some things differently for instance i did not make a macro for "OUTPOST" cause that is kind of burn me at the stake CALL !!!
U got reported because people think u use BOT (always the same pattern of movement) !!! U should make macro for quest itself, and do OUTPOST moving by yourself (that`s what i did) !
I`m sorry but u are the one to blame for ur BANN !

I agree with the above the only one responsible for the ban was the person using macros and more than likely 3rd party software which the eula clearly states you cannot use. Nobody should be able to use any other resources unless everyone uses those resources. Cheating the system should be stopped. You should be sitting at the keyboard and pressing every key and doing everything required to advance both in level and in titles. So, good for Anet banning these people teach them a lesson play the game the way it is meant to be played and quit trying to cut corners.

Numa Pompilius · Oct 17, 2008, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Edit: Yes, EULA's are legally binding, no matter what country you live in/language it is written in since thier terms are not unconcionable. Courts would apply California law since that is where a.net's primary place of buisness is (I assume it's also incorporated in Deleware).

That is very much a question of opinion and location. Last I checked the situation wrt EULAs was confused, and companies studiously avoid appealing to EULAs in court in order to avoid having the situation become any clearer. Even in the US, EULAs have been struck down at least as often as they have been enforced, and the situation is clear as muck.

More to the point, the EULA is irrelevant. ArenaNet owns the server, and have the right to restrict access to their servers in any way they see fit, without even having to give any reason.

Kula · Oct 17, 2008, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

While botting is "bad," the fact that the only (pratical) way to achieve a title is through 100s of hours of bot like behavior, its not surprising that A.net will ban people by mistake every now and then.

Really, this is just a.net's fault for making such a crapply designed grindish title in the first place.

Agreed.

I learned something from this thread: reply to random whispers while farming, even if you're not in the mood to talk, because it might be a GM or someone from the botpatrol testing to see if you're a bot.

Heloniar · Oct 17, 2008, 12:23 AM // 00:23

kula, even replies can be automated,

"hi"
"just doing hfff"
"leave me the ***** alone"
"STFU"
those replies can be clearly randomized and automated.

MercenaryKnight · Oct 17, 2008, 12:28 AM // 00:28

You couldn't bot those commands to be typed when you receive a whisper though. I don't believe it could be anyway.

Best way to be proven your not a bot is to just never use the same routes as bots in towns. Walk with wasd don't click on signs or invite someone standing by zone for you.

Heloniar · Oct 17, 2008, 12:32 AM // 00:32

hmm
if i stand by the zone, will i get invited, then i get accepted and i get a free hff run? :P
hmm nice thought

Kula · Oct 17, 2008, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heloniar

kula, even replies can be automated,

"hi"
"just doing hfff"
"leave me the ***** alone"
"STFU"
those replies can be clearly randomized and automated.

I meant engaging in conversation not responding with one-liners.

I should've been more specific, my bad.

Musei Karasu · Oct 17, 2008, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Drops Az

Unless you have a way to auto target your own 2nd account above all the others in a district?

Code:

/
i
n
v
i
t
e
(char name)
spacebar

Most likely.

Aussie Boy · Oct 17, 2008, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Sorry to hear this and I have a G15 i use for events and such like mad king says cause i
can't type fast guess i should not use it just in case i get a ban.

Hope the Community Manager pops in here

Amnel Ithtirsol · Oct 17, 2008, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Dear Arena Net,
Like the OP I have a Logitech G15 Keyboard and I would like to know, once and for all, what is 'legal" and what is not so that I do not accidentally get my account banned.
Thank you.

Shadowspawn X · Oct 17, 2008, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Well first the G11 and the G15 can do mouse events. Just run macro manager, right-click inside the events box, and select the mouse button to insert. However the G-15 only can display the x-y co-ordinates, since it has the LCD screen.

Next the macro-manger function is disallowed in most NCSOFT games they are programed so this won't work. Keystroke macros are defined as ones that were created using the "Assign Keystroke" option from the pop-up menu on the G Key these are allowed. Now Anet was not always a part of NCSOFT and could have not had the anti-macro-manger programming which got the OP into this mess.

Apollo Smile · Oct 17, 2008, 05:31 AM // 05:31

If you have to question whether it is safe or not to use, you should not do it at all. Better to be safe then sorry. I honestly think the OP is leaving something out, like most people who get banned do. Seeing all of the ArenaNet trolling in this thread just shows he got what he wanted.

Amy Awien · Oct 17, 2008, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heloniar

not necessarily true, you can download the client for free, or once boughtand once installed, it asks you to read he eula before proceeding with the game.

Not at all, I bought the game in the store. My countries law dictates that the terms of any agreement be made known before the sale or else a standard agreement applies. How hard is this to comprehend, ANet Eula is not valid before the law.

Quote:

... it's legally binding and the courts wouldn't waste their time with issues such as this. every PC software created has a EULA of sorts.

What every software attempts to do is irrelevant, PC software makers can not make laws, not directly, not indirectly.

Quote:

lets look at the letters EULA- Electronic User Licensing Agreement. - which means it's not on paper, but rather embedded in the software. You don't click the eula, you can't use the software.

Lol, you're trying to argument laws while you don't even know what 'eula' stands for? These letters mean 'End User License Agreement'.
No matter what the name, law requires that the terms of the agreement are presented beforehand.

Darkobra · Oct 17, 2008, 08:17 AM // 08:17

http://www.guildwars.com/support/legal/default.php

You can read that without ever buying the game. The information's readily available to you if you know where to look.

Jenn · Oct 17, 2008, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

It's stupid that you think having an automated method of inviting someone, running to them and running out the zone for you wouldn't be considered a bot. That is how anyone sitting in town can tell if your using a bot.

A.net would not be able to tell if you constantly click the sign post and then just hit w and walk forward past it. Because bots do that all the time. Even when I do plain hfff without any form of macro. I never get lazy and click the signpost/ do it that way. I always run to the place and zig zag with the strafe keys a few times. So that I can never get mistaken for a bot.

A.net can only figure out if your a bot by basically seeing your pattern in town. Anybody can hit 123 456 789 after flagging the heroes. So they don't pay too much attention to the actual hfff. Real people generally will walk with the wasd keys in town and not click on the signpost. Bots have to click the signpost/ invite someone close to zone and then run out.

So, don't be lazy/ clicking signposts or inviting people's names in town then walking forward. Walk normally and I can bet 80% or more that you won't get mistaken as a bot again. The fact that you can zone without being at keyboard makes it automated= a bot.

You really underestimate the ability of some people to grind. When I was doing HFFF, I set the period (.) key to "Target: Next." Upon entering town, I would hit it twice. No matter where you load in Lutgardis, that will target the Melandru's Hope sign. Not to mention, it shaves off at least a few seconds because I can register those actions before I'm even completely loaded. Once I got there, or relatively close, I would turn my camera and press R.

I have my hero flags keyed to F5-8. That way I don't have to drag them from the radar to my Mission Map, I can just hover my mouse over the spot they need to be placed, and it's almost instantaneous. Once you get that part down, it goes really quickly. And then I have on my number pad something like this:

123: Hero 1 - Shadow Form - Run Skill - Run Skill
456: Hero 2 - Shadow Form - Run Skill - Run Skill
789: Hero 3 - Shadow Form - Run Skill - Run Skill

Doing that entire process shaves off about 30 seconds each run - so don't call people lazy. You should be at least recognizing their effort to maximize their time spent doing this. If you would rather take that much longer doing a Faction title, you're the one who deserves to be laughed at

.

--------------------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by english storm

I give up maybe this picture will convince you, there is no scripting involved to move, it's a built in function you can use when making macros. Give it up already you are wrong, it's not like it's the end of the world!

http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?i...6746370bx9.jpg

Actually, technicalities of language aside, I believe the person you were arguing with is correct. The basic premise of your screenshot is that it's a "click-and-drag" dummie version of what really is a script.

In AutoIt, all that would have to be typed is:

Code:

click 342,343
sleep 1000
click 432, 324
MouseDrag blahblah

In essence, the G15 "built in mouse function" is a script-generator for people who don't have the know-how to type out the whole thing. To my understanding, that would mean you could generate an entire afk-process with the G15 keyboard... at least for the duration of one run.

A comparable example would be website designing. Any person can open up a program like Dreamweaver or Microsoft FrontPage and build a website using drawing tools, paint cans and other functions that just look like you're using MS Word. You're still generating a website, but what actually powers it, the CODE that creates it... it doesn't need to be known. Instead it's automatically generated.

So someone who selects the text and clicks a blue paintcan is telling the program like Dreamweaver to actually write this:

Code:

<font color="blue">This is blue text</font>

Just because you can't see the code or script being generated does not mean that it isn't there.

tmakinen · Oct 17, 2008, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

ANet Eula is not valid before the law.

You are missing a crucial point. Every time when you launch the game you use the resources on ANet's servers. You are using their property at ANet's sole discretion. ANet can deny your use of their property for any reason or for no reason whatsoever and they have that right regardless of any EULA. Their property, their rules.

BladeDVD · Oct 17, 2008, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

Actually, technicalities of language aside, I believe the person you were arguing with is correct. The basic premise of your screenshot is that it's a "click-and-drag" dummie version of what really is a script.
....
In essence, the G15 "built in mouse function" is a script-generator for people who don't have the know-how to type out the whole thing. To my understanding, that would mean you could generate an entire afk-process with the G15 keyboard... at least for the duration of one run.

What was originally being said was that there was no built in function to recreate mouse controls with the G15. The G15, however, comes with software that makes this possible. But it's a separate program, unlike the code in the driver that enables the macro learning buttons on the keyboard itself. That's not a material difference though, so saying the G15 doesn't come with the ability to control mouse commands is just plain wrong. Whether those commands are macros or scripts seems kind of pointless to me.

------------------

I wonder if the OP had asked them to review his activities when doing the actual HFFFing if they would have been able to tell he was not using a bot. And if so, why would he use a bot just to get out the door and not for the actual farming itself? That seems like the most likely way he would get his account back.

Since I also have a G15 keyboard, I too would like to know if the macro/script the OP created is against the rules or not. Until now, the standard was thought to be that as long as you still had to be at the keyboard for everything to work, you were ok. This ban seems to say that this is not the case.

I too (as someone else stated) have a macro on my G15 that combines the ; space keyboard presses to make picking up drops easier when I'm killing stuff in the game. Am I going to get in trouble if I use this macro during the next special event with present drops?

What really confuses me is that Anet was using these keyboards as part of their past promotions. You would think they would have been forced to come up with a more concrete definition on what was and was not allowed when using this keyboard.